war thunder forum germany suffers

The Brit needs 2-3 good hits to kill the KT, while the KT just takes one hit to blow the Cent up with huge APHE. Those three qualities are what control the tank's ability. Turret is 200mm at it's weakest and will bounce if the enemy angles or is at long range. The problem here is that Japan doesn't have a lot of players and thus meeting japanese aircraft is pretty rare in RB. Long 88 can one shot a T__ but in my experience you have to go for the shot trap, which is a risky shot. FInally we can do much more than to just get flanked. but in a game where you play the same maps over and over again and know all the ways hideouts. The F-4F Phantom II is a rank VII German jet fighter with a battle rating of 11.0 (AB/RB/SB). I've whacked Leopards with my SU-5-1 but didn't have much to do with the vehicles. Recently I got the MiG 19s and its just been soul draining bad because off missile spamming and almost constant uptears, so I try to go back to the MiG 15 and G.91 but they experience a similar problem. Has 7.1 second reload (slower than 6.7s of the 105 L7 guns), -6 gun depression, and only 17.3 deg/sec traverse, so it doesn't fit gun handling meta. Germany should rely on armor but more often than not it is countered with vehicles that can lol pen. Contrary to popular belief there is more then one way to exploit this knowledge. If a person is to look at other trees and seek to understand the problems they face, far worse MM can be found. Sell, buy or trade War Thunder Items and Services here. The Panther by contrasthave close to no reverse. (and enjoy the performance of APCR). Think a bit ahead. Most guns can penetrate it from the front. Many German players will often hang back and camp (which can be good, if done in moderation--Germany gets above average exchange rates this way) but critically, problems arise when these players never do move up. First of all the amount of smoke the projectile generates when it strikes a target is ridiculous. These same players will often say that German vehicles lesser mobility means the Germans simply cannot compete with the more nimble Allied vehicles--ignoring Germanys other merits. In the early days I would have now I just think its better to grab a turtle and snipe, small and fast is for fun whenyou want to explore or get bored. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? Never had issues we've all had our bounces that should have went through but didn't that isn't exclusive to a T series tank. Germany has a p-47 just like the allies? It's just so effective and has a good size-able ammunition pool. Germany has access to the P-47 the same way the US has access to the 109 and 190. As the matter relates to teams' statuses and ticket bleed, the capture point's alignment once captured is ended from the moment it is captured until the moment that hold on it is broken or the game ends. Apds isn't guaranteed damage actually put rounds through things and have done no damage on many occasions. 1 Description 2 General info 2.1 Survivability and armour 2.2 Mobility 2.3 Modifications and economy 3 Armaments 3.1 Main armament 3.1.1 Ammunition 3.1.2 Ammo racks 3.2 Machine guns 4 Usage in battles 4.1 Pros and cons 5 History 6 Media 7 See also 8 External links Description It requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose if noone caps. As far as I know, nothing about that have been mentioned since it was "being worked on" back in 2017. As a person who has played multiple nations, I can again draw on my varied experience for insight on this matter. The T28 is indeed scumy, not because its to op but because its almost the same tank as the T95 but at a lower br also the side armor thing matters a lot, this is a slow tank, THE slowest tank actually, the panther and tiger have enough speed to compansate for it unlike the HUGE top speed of 13 km/h that the T28. (small note, i forgot the T__ has cast armor, it's frontal protection is actually 190mm at it's weakest. Even then you aren't going to see UK tanks in 100% of your matches. The turret is ok, not the best, but gives the 76mm and 85mm some trouble. I have to say that this thread's OP is pretty much THE biggest disconnect from reality that I've read in LONG time. panzer ii ausf l luchs mit bildern panzer panzer ii. He usually has like 5 different options. Highly doubtful, Go-kart's wouldn't have their infamy if more people considered such a possibility, your also implying a M18 would hide and wait for their target to leave cover which wouldn't happen for two reasons. This is a major drawback and makes this tank so special. Of course it does, but this is not the argument here. He can cap first and when wait till in an ambush till you start to decap. Just an observation maybe its just me. Because they know that there will be most probably a trap when they arrive at the cap point. The most obvious example of this is that a player can jump directly from the Panzer IIIs at 3.0 to the Tiger H1 at 5.3. As someone who has played all nations, I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks. history projects. Usually it's the other way around, the M18 waits around for a target and looks around corners with the third person view camera. On 13/02/2020 at 09:16, watch_your_fire said: On 13/02/2020 at 00:46, AnimeThighs said: On 13/02/2020 at 10:33, WilderHans said: On 15/02/2020 at 09:37, Inflatable_CampR said: Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers! All these three things are in fact WT top tier meta. With a few more wins per hundred matches, they'd be at that point. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. Pretty unfair that almost all US tanks have those AA HMGs. India. I "like" how you start out this topic with some kind of meme-theme, that there's nothing to it more than it being perceived as "suffering!" It doesn't cover up that much of a hull you can shoot it reasonably well. The Tiger I is hard to play and inferior to the Panther! He can just wait till you start to cap and go around you. The blinding effect happens but its not as bad as your saying it is. Meanwhile, what is expected of the high skill T__ player? That's good to hear, I know I did my part to live up to those stories. And yes theoretically the bigger and slower tank could try the same tactic, just that it would take him much longer to react, he would be easiert to spot and aim at, and you would give the enemy more time to shoot at you when you cross open terrain. This by the way also the reason why you quite often see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches. Background: I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. How do you bounce on a flat piece of armour? According to this complaint, Germanys mobility is insufficient to be competitive in RB GFs, with the greatest concentration of this complaint being focused on the 5.X range. There is a great deal of difference in comparing the significance of gun handling of two medium tanks and that of a lightweight TD and a heavyweight medium tank. Your best chance would be using Japan yourself, Ah I see. However there comes the real germany suffers thing. T__ turret has double layered spots where it goes as high as 300mm, angled cheeks, and is straight up thicker even at it's weakest points. Ugh. - Panther is a medium tank and cheaper to spawn. Any player should understand that, especially new players! They die as soon as literally any heavy pulls up and just the purpose of giving the enemy free RP and SL. Their is a perfect blend of fast paced numbers (Warcurse, Escalation) and slower, more groove-oriented thrash in the vein of Pantera's Cowboys From Hell, in particular Destroy What Destroys You. If it's perfectly fine as a comparison, then why is CQC fighting the rulewhen GJ is designing maps,while we clearly can make it a more interesting battle if every nation can face their strengths and shortcomings on the battlefield. Most German fighters can either take a 500kg bomb or a 250kg bomb. Those things are a really easy kill as long as you see them first. - Panther armour is easier to use and still ok. No need to angle, just point the front towards the enemy. How is this true for any vehicles? So you have to switch ammo which is a drawback. The stock ammo misery for every leos and m48 etc. On the afternoon of 21 November 1995, Grant suffered a fatal heart attack while driving to his home at Eastbourne with his son Warren. That's just how a downtier works no matter the battlerating. King tiger turret is just a big flat sheet of 185mm armor. This is a subreddit for War Thunder, a cross platform vehicular combat MMO developed by Gaijin Entertainment for Microsoft Windows, macOS, Linux, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox One and Xbox Series X|S. Germany continues to suffer in War Thunder! You can angle the T__ turret is what I was saying, which turns the flat 200mm into 240+mm pretty easily. its a combo of bad general movility (its not only foward speed its also traverse speed and reverse speed) and bad gun handling (turret traverse speed and gun elevation speed) mixed with a terrible map design that make the game some kind ofcall of duty playstyle. The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. Incorrect in so many levels. Puma 50mm Panzergranate has pretty low post pen damage on higher tier tanks. That's a big if there, an M18 still isn't fast enough to out run a gun so its unlikely for them to survive long enough to retreat out of an ambushand flank you, heck even half of them that do make it out get blown up latertrying to flank you as they may become careless with hatred. To believe that mobility is the only thing matters is to ignore almost everything that matters in a match. The m41 is a welcomed addition. In this video, I and a couple of friends play one of the best lineups in the game.#warthunder #germany #friends I am a german main (I know what a suprise) but since the Maus and E100 were captured you could give at least the Maus to other nations too I think. War Thunder > General Discussions > Topic Details dungeon eagle, gungeon ant Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:26pm germany suffers panther at 5.7 (it should be higher) Last edited by dungeon eagle, gungeon ant ; Apr 15, 2021 @ 4:52pm The author of this topic has marked a post as the answer to their question. That's your personal preference. The Soviet nation has very little at 6.X--almost as few vehicles as the Americans do at 4.X. In general, German win rates are in the 40s even at their lowest and this means that they're near the balancing point (the 45-55% range, being within +/-5 of 50%). More to the point, your initial comment is THE biggest disconnect from reality that I've read in LONG time. People wildly overstate the extent of this. The first two points can be resolved by reforming the German tree to not have the jumps that it has and by requiring players to unlock more vehicles to progress to such higher BRs (as other nations have). Interesting thing about predicting the predictable itshighly accurate. The only way the Germans can use their strengths to dominate such maps is with good teamplay. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. 6. As for the Bf 110G, it is superb--it's only fault is that it's ranked as a Tier II rather than a Tier III. Other nations have a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the []ASU 85. Well technically everyone suffers but you would have clicked on this otherwise. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. As if the game and the race to the capture point ends the moment they get to it and then it just sits there waiting for the Panther to roll in. Two world wars and two pandemics are just a few of the many historic events witnessed by Sister Andre during her 118 years. Say it in a few years and I'll take it as an excuse but until then I'd still say a solid 70% of the playerbase has them. ..and I'm not talking about the vehicles, they're OK-ish. Been consistent honestly. That being said I wanted to ask them to get answers, because for me it is important. I mean this thing has a chance to kill KT frontally by spamming around the turret ring and it can take out the gun barrel within 2-3 shots.When the M41 of a German player is destroyed, well you can go panther which is not the best when it comes to maneuvering, or perhaps a puma which can get shredded by .50 CAL. If they're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why they don't when in German vehicles. You can't aim when they shot in your direction. And the side of the turret doesn't really mean alot as you can still punch through it with basically the same thing as the other you die no matter what so if you good up that shot its on you. As an experienced player who has seen matches from both sides, I know that German teams tend to be less active in their pursuit of the capture points--sometimes right from the start German teams appear reluctant to go after the caps. And that goes for anyone regardless of nation. Are you serious? Thread seems to highlight points some might see as a way to improve gameplay. And its mo different than tiger 2 players shaking their turret to get a bounce. It has a good gun, but it is about as slow as it gets, not to mention it makes the panthers reverse speed look fast. The Tiger II Sla.16 is the one outlier in Germany 6.7. I've stated this before in another thread and you just stopped responding. This and the blinding factor is a massive inbalance. That's where the Panther gets stuck due to bad low speed mobility. Are there plans to move overpowered vehicles (like Xp-50 or Su-11) to a more reasonable br rating? As a seasoned German player, I can tell you their firepower is at least as valuable as the Allies' speed. Also we know the stories about the feared King Tigerpacks who slowly roam the map and suddenly appear in your rear. The Me 410 B-6/R3 is considerably more competitive than people think. If the team melts, the team melts. I am losing a little over half my team (if my team is made up of mainly germans, which it generally is, otherwise about a quarter leave) before the 3 minute . I'll give you a half point for this one as I clearly said the M18 will head to your spawn after it caps, Well if it makes you feel better stranger things have happened. While the M18 can potentially be used for flanking regardless of tier--this is true of any vehicle--it is also a vehicle that can be wiped out even by lowly 1.0s. I've been playing the Su-100P lately (pretty underrated, but could still use a lower BR to match the regular Su-100) and it baffles me how many pumas I am seeing from 5.7-7.7. Noone does the same with panthers. So saying it does bad thing in a downtier goes whichever way you draw it. Are king tigers unplayable? Slow speed handling of the Panther is also very bad, making it a bad brawler in CQC situations where you most likely would have to turn with the traverse to get on target in that tank. I am obviously not among the greatest pilots out there but I am decent from what I found on thunderskill and I have to say this is plain wrong. When it comes to the points I made about the armor, I have had my AMX-13 bounce off the side turret numerous times, it really is that thick. Its a fine argument, it fits into the"why would I drive over there to shoot them from 10 feet awaywhen I can sit here 1000+ meters away and kill them?" I haven't had a single game with Germany either on the same or enemy team without there being a single puma. And no matter what is the br setting whatever times you get a new vehicle even at 8.7 you have to start the whole thing again. With so few vehicles in their selections at 4.X and 6.X, the Americans and Russians face much worse situations with uptiers. Germany suffers (and others too), balance, br, tanks, jets, etc. I am sure that these questions are on many peoples' minds and you are asked at least some of these questions often. No, the good players, because we need to play with this.. other 90% of the other players, that only got enough braincells to press W. Just carry, its what I do. 25 best luchs images in 2020 panzer ii military. In general, German win rates are in the 40s even at their lowest and this means that they're near the balancing point (the 45-55% range, being within +/-5 of 50%). #15. The most disappointing part is that the 7.92s seem to always be under performing and relative to the 13mms too. Just because there would be more open maps doesn't mean we can't have CQC maps. Really? They have large gun built on small and light chassis, so the weight of the gun makes it bounce after braking. Objectives are death traps usually placed in a way that does favour German CATs, but you know that quite well. Russians are a mixed bag but to Kill an IS6 or IS3 is usually a combination of skill and luck as they are mostly immune to the long 88. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Still a lot more intuitive. They usually tend to be just as useless as those M22s too. I never said the hull was bad on the t series i have stated that as long as you don't hit the tracks you pen and the other thread we are in has showed that. In an one on one battle with one cap point andrough, uneven terrain you will lose against the M18 in your panther 8 out of 10 times. Also Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. for example to prove what i said u can see that with panther A br reduce to 5.7 germany teams improved a lot, because panthers have much better gun handling than tigers. East Germnay also has access to the BMP-2 as well. 4. I'd recommend not making part of the argument then to begin with, The argument is that a more mobile tank has the better "tools", traits call it however you want to exploit this knowledge. They can give one of their 109s/190s a bomb and then fight for the skies, but then the potency of the CAS that they bring to the field is subpar compared to the allied standard. Mobility: The complaint: One of the most common complaints that is leveled against the nation of Germany is a perceived lack of mobility. I myself often wonder why German players don't just take out their CAS when playing against 5.7-7.7 brits for example, since most of the brit tanks at that level can be easily penned even by .50 cal weapons from the air. Its an endless cycle so you better get used to it. Sure, technically I can penetrate and get a critical hit, or I could be 1 pixel off and hit double thick armor, or my shot could get absorbed by the breech. Selling Top German/UK Tank and Plane & US Top plane with many Premium. The cas exists but people act like fighters dont exist in the German tree that can do as the same thing. Furthermore, using simple math, after 2 Minutes the number of places where the M18 could be is much bigger than the number of places where the Panther could be. T-80U only fixes armor (although weakspots veeerrry preminent), slightly better HP/T (still -10 kph reverse though), and a slightly better reload (6.5s but still slightly slower than other 120mms). What? In that experience, I have found that. And since most Panther drivers know that, they usually just camp. so german jets are not useless compared to their opponents? I am sure that these questions are on many peoples' minds and you are asked at least some of these questions often. interactions? It would actually give Germany some nice, War Thunder map friendly brawling options, like T-34's, IS-2's, T-54's, as well as some lower BR MBT's with decent armour, like T-55's, T-72's etc. Then you have very bad chances to win as USA, since you won't be able to flank them. Noone does the same with panthers. But there almost no such maps in the game. It's strengths clearly outweighs it's burdens when the game is based around city/village structures. True, I had the T-44 in mind when I made that post though. (This topic will likely be flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying to hijack the thread.). This is why nobody takes anyone who believes in tygor syndrom seriously. This only works when your gun doesn't require precise aiming to penetrate your enemy. Isn't it a bit dishonest to completely "forget" to bring out the more negative aspects of the panther? My general thoughts on what causes Germany to suffer: The Germans' main undoing are their teams--there's no doubt about it. You can pen various parts of the of them and can with apcr. It allows for the a pilot to manually set several engine-related perks on the aircraft while on the fly, with the most important being the radiator and the fuel mixture. Getting ahead is stupidly hard. You make it sound like the T series doesn't have to aim for weak points also. I wrote Panther II and T-44-100, which are the medium tanks of BR 6.7-7.0, actual competitors to the Cent 3. Everything about the HRE, NGC, GE, WR, GR, SP, FRG and GDR. I'm talking about the teams steamsad The Tiger II's gun is stabilized but it doesn't bounce. Panther speedcross country on flat terrain is42km/h. No matter how well you argue or what evidence you cite, you will inevitably be attacked by the people who cling to beliefs of German victimhood if you speak out against it--the believers dont want to hear dissent--just know about that. Jagdtiger? Armor profile is meh also and they are abit slower than the tiger 2s surprisingly. And we can't skip over the SPAAs either when discussing counters against CAS. As said above, aircraft carriers don't exist in arcade. Easier to spot in open terrain and gives you enough time for an aimed shot? Again as stated before in other threads it is an option it is not viable in most instances as you typically just die. Download Free PDF View PDF. Join the Discord Here: https://discord.gg/cgctjTR5hjHope you all enjoy this video/short from an interesting moment in-game! buy panzer ii amp luchs the world war ii Doesn't fit good mobility meta. Only switch to the 3rd auto gear if going down hills and on flat roads. With this you will keep your RPM high and get moving fast. I agree that between 8.7 and 9.7 Soviets have overall bad mobility, but i strongly disagree that T80B, T80U and BMP3 have bad mobility. Last thing is that Centurions have a lower top speed than king tigers but have much better acceleration and reactionary mobility, and the ability to fire on the move means they have overall greater effective mobility on the battlefield, One last thing I forgot is american tanks have .50s, so good luck aiming for weak spots when your enemy is blinding you and taking out your barrel literally as soon as he spots you. What is the Caernarvon? It requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose if noone caps. encyclopedia. And if he turns it to the side literally shoot the huge side of the turret that will be exposed. panzer ii light tank military history. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. If you haven't noticed I'm implying being one/two steps ahead. While German vehicles cannot quite match others vehicles in a drag race, this does not mean German vehicles are bad. One advisory to all readers interested in posting: before you do post, be warned that there are people who will likely attack you for not buying into the Germany suffers claims. The complaint is one thats pretty common for all nations--uptiers. This is especially visible while on 6.7 when vehicles of the same tier can lol pen Tiger II upf. But how often do you see good teamplay in randombattles? Just an observation maybe its just me. Step forward progressively, oh how I haven't seen that argument before. I'm also fine with the T30 at 6.7 since it has such a long reload, but the T34 really ought to be 7.0 just because of how ridiculous it is against 5.7s in a downtier. That's your personal preference. You can use it, for the Tiger I lovers the way to go. Which isn't as many as the P-47 you still get access to the same 1,000 pounder and 500 pounder it gets just not at once. 1. ronica blake. This is of course a burden if you're in a CQC situation where the APDS will easily pen your frontal armor. I wouldn't say its off topic at all, map friendly brawling options fallsintocategory's the suffering community thinks Germany needs and in the upper low MBT department East Germany is suffering as the tanks are missingaltogetherlike some other nationsvehiclesand that right there is the very definition of "Suffering". He usually has like 5 different options. There's only one brit 6.7 with atgms, but theres like 5 total with stabs and apds, Also no, the long 88 does not go through T__ tanks with ease, you have to shoot for weakspots which is quite difficultif the enemy is moving or at long range. This puts Germany in a lose/lose position when choosing their plane to call in. 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